“I am not giving interpretations I am giving you Gods word so the problem is with the Bible.”

I know you’re not giving me interpretations. Like I said before, I hate it when people spout off Bible verses to me. I can find a verse that, by itself, without proper interpretation will make you feel like you should cut off your hand or gouge out your eye. A Bible verse, on it’s own, can mean absolutely anything.

This has gotten really off topic.

Even though you can’t agree to disagree, I can! I’m now closing comments. The purpose of this post was to show people that Gay people are loved by God also!! The church has turned their back on them and it’s time to welcome them. I know some fabulous gay people.

I hope I at least reached one person!

I said “crushed” because the Bible say’s crush!

You misunderstood what I said about self esteem.

At first God may have said the whole of creation is good but why later would God look at man and say He was greived that He even made us. Why then did He destroy sodom and gomorah? Why did He flood the earth to kill evil men? Why did he

We will have self esteem as His children, we will have peace, we will have joy. But only as a by product of our relationship with Him. We will live abundantly when he is able to Live and breathe through us. It is not about being a mindless drone. Our total being though should be to love, honor, and glorify our Jesus. Like I said earlier He saved us for Himself that we would be a holy nation the apple of His eye. Those in Christ are now a royal priesthood. All these blessings will be ours when we lose ourselves in his perfect will. Everything we do in service is going to be out of a loving and grateful heart. We must remember, he that has been forgiven much will love much. Its a natural response. When people look at us they should know that there is a God in Heaven and His power brought a dead man back to life and it is not only Jesus but us who belong to Him. We once were dead in our sins but He gave us new life! We must live out lives in light of eternity not the temporal. Until you reach this you are missing the reality of what is really going on.

I have children and a wife as well and yes I know that people have messed up lives out there but the reason that is true is because evil men made stupid choices and were not loving their neighbor.

It is not God’s will any should suffer but we all have the freedom of choice and stupid people can make stupid decisions. I have traveled to Africa and Europe. I have been to south America. And everywhere I have been I see men supressing the truth. I see kids living in poverty while there government leaders live in mansions. It is horrible and unjust but that is only the evidence of wicked and depraved men. In South Africa right now kids are starving and dying I have seen this and yet men are fighting and keeping people from bringing aid. Don’t talk to me about men being somewhat good! why do you think god sends his people to help! Because God is love HE MUST HATE the sin and actions of men and women that hurt others. If men would humble themselves and listen to what God is saying and learn from what He revealed this world would be different!

Does all the Bible make sense to me? Not everything but I am growing and His spirit is leading. But I cannot make a God to fit what I want or sounds nice to me.

May God Bless you in your journeys and transform your mind and heart as he does with me.

We could go on forever. I’m glad I’m making people think though, you all are making me think hard too. That’s all I want out of this blog, to stir the pot and promote thought.

Hope to see you on my next post.

I come to a place in discussion that I feel can not go much deeper than this. I truly believe in the authority of Scripture, I believe strongly that God’s Word is not that hard to understand but is hard to obey. I agree with your desire for grace to be poured out but I believe it must be poured out of a personal desire and conviction for holiness in our own lives. We can discuss forever views in reflection to our own thoughts and feelings but I believe Gods Word has so much more to offer.

You and I have met personally through your brother and sister-in-law. I have been part of a worship team in the past with Leanne at Cedar and am part of their small group at Wellspring.

I pray that you and I will be transformed into how God wants us to show and share His grace in light of Holiness.

“man does not need more self esteem it is our biggest problem. It is time for us to esteem the only one worthy of esteem.”

that was a really ignorant statement. God wants us to have self esteem. We’re his children! I’m raising my kids to have as much self esteem as possible!! People are hurting out there. Reading your Bible and praising God MORE isn’t going to change the fact that people have had messed up lives. God gave us brains to help ourselves through self-help books, doctors, psychologists. Praising God more is good…not going to fix your issues. It’s good for you to mull through issues.

This whole crazy thought that God wants us to be drones who have no sense of self and no value to our own person seems so very wrong to me. God didn’t create mankind and call it evil, he called it “good”.

Perhaps those of those who’d like to rebuke our own worth and flesh could go join some gnostic cult and stop making people think that God wants us to suffer for him like a little kid with a magnifying glass on an ant farm!

God does NOT get his jollies off seeing people hurting!! At least not the God I worship!

I want to clear up any thoughts that I am saying we are working for our salvation. When I speak about obeying His commands I mean that because He has given us a new heart and a new spirit He
moves us to keep His laws and decrees. I am not speaking of sinless perfection but I know with God all things are possible.

I want to respond to some of your statements so I will copy and paste here:

(plucky) I’m sure God is well aware of the reasons why people are homosexual.

I believe this too. He knows we are evil! He sees our depravity. I often hear that the cross is this beautiful symbol of how valuable we are. I see it as a symbol of how depraved and vile we are that it took God’s own son to be crushed by God on it! This is not some interpretation of scripture. (Romans 3:12)

(Gen 6:5) The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

(plucky)We are all born sinners. I wouldn’t say evil.

(Rom 3:11) no one understands; no one seeks for God.

(Rom 3:12) All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

(Rom 3:13) “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.”

(Rom 3:14) “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”

(Rom 3:15) “Their feet are swift to shed blood;

(Rom 3:16) in their paths are ruin and misery,

(Rom 3:17) and the way of peace they have not known.”

(Rom 3:18) “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

(Rom 3:19) Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God.

(PLUCKY) 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

(plucky)Those people are saying “Look at all our hands have done!! We worked so hard for you! We’ve done all these wonderful acts” Too bad that it’s not our actions that get us into Heaven.

These people are saying “what I thought I was saved!” but I did all this for you! Just because God uses you does not mean things are good between you and Him. If He can make rocks sing and donkeys speak we should embrace this.

(Mat 7:21) “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

My question is are we doing the will of the Father?

Jesus told Nicodemus that unless a man is born again he will not see the Kingdom of Heaven! The essence of what I have said is no one can be a Christian just by praying a prayer. the reality of your regeneration is not going to come from anything man can produce. It is a supernatural work of God! He has set us free why do we want to wallow around in our old lifestyles? God says that He will clean us. It seems many people have misunderstood the cross of Jesus. He died not to save us from sin but to save us from God’s wrath. We deserve death and I believe that the reason the Bible says that God cannot look upon sin is because every time He looked at us He would have to judge us because he is holy and just. God loves mercy so He died on the cross for us! But it was not to save us from sin it was to save us from himself because He had to appease His justice and rather crush feeble men He crushed His son. Sin though was a big enough deal that someone had to die. We must get away from this deification of man and focus from ourselves and focus on God. man does not need more self esteem it is our biggest problem. It is time for us to esteem the only one worthy of esteem. Look at our Christian book stores 75% of the books there deal with how empty we are and how to have your best life now and that is because many of those you profess to have Jesus never truely met Him. He told the woman at the well He had living water for her and if she drank of it she would never thirst again. If this is true why are so many christians filling there lives with more stuff instead of the bread of life?

I’m glad you’re understanding me more.

I feel that glory whenever I see something spectacular in nature. All I see is God’s love for me pouring out of the amazing playground he made for me. I loved the Grand Canyon!

There’s nothing wrong with staying focussed on God AT ALL! but I still think God wants you to focus on yourself too. All the things that he called “sin” are unhealthy things for our body, our minds, our relationships or our spirits. It’s good for us to not sin. I really believe that’s why those rules are there. God wants us to be happy SO badly!! There’s nothing wrong with self, nothing wrong with flesh. It was made by God and it is loved by God (more than we love and adore an want the best for our own children).

I think there is value in self, in life, in flesh. God wouldn’t have given us emotion and love and ORGASMS if he didn’t want us to focus on self. He’s in all of it! Taking care of our selves glorifies God as well.

The way that I have seen my purpose in life is in reflection to God being glorified.

God has brought me to the edge of the Grand Canyons, they are majestic, beautiful, awe inspiring, and move me beyond anything. When I stand at the edge I do not think about sin, what I do or have done, why I am here, or anything that leads to “ME”, all I experience is the glory of something much bigger and beautiful than myself. Standing at the edge invokes change in me because I don”t want any distractions or any thing of myself to get in the way of what I am experiemcing. That is what it is like for me to be glorifying God in my life.

When I am focused on Him I want to stay their forever so I work at the things in life that distract me or keep me away from the edge of the Grand Canyons (the Glory Of God)
I became a christian, not the day I said my prayer but the day I willingly stood at the edge of the Grand Canyons because of Christ, the moving of the Spirit and the Grace of God
My concern with your comments is; does it help people who are living in sin and are lost, hurting and in need of God’s love come to the edge of the Grand Canyons where they can experience the Glory of God, want to be part of it and would rid their lives of anything that keeps them from more of it.
One of the ways we Glorify God is sharing with others the experience of God’s Glory and being a voice of love as Christ was and is. To help all desire the same experience and to help all to experience more as we ALL rid ourselves of things that distract us and keeps focused on self.

Who said I have not changed? Who said I am not apathetic towards my failures?

“There is no such thing as a gay chromosome”

no there’s x chromosomes and y chromosomes. None that look like rainbows that I know of. I was born with ADHD but there aren’t any chromosomes for that…or brown hair…or male pattern baldness. So I wont be finding it. I’m sure God is well aware of the reasons why people are homosexual.

“Being homosexual is only a symptom of the greater problem which is all of us are born evil”

We are all born sinners. I wouldn’t say evil.

You’re into Matthew 7
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Those people are saying “Look at all our hands have done!! We worked so hard for you! We’ve done all these wonderful acts” Too bad that it’s not our actions that get us into Heaven.

Stand-up I do agree with some things that you say but it almost seems to me that your theology is less mainstream than mine. Baffling.

Yes, I do believe that I am “born again” “saved” “a Christian” etc. I don’t believe it was my magic prayer that saved me. Nor me turning from my wicked ways (I’m actually a very moral and upstanding citizen). I believe it was Christ’s death on the cross that saved me.

We can’t actually run from sin. What a nutty statement! And if we love God we do our best. I love my husband and I don’t always get it right. I love my children and I don’t always get it right. Loving God can’t mean being sinless because it’s impossible!!! Running from sin is impossible! Striving for the better good is possible. No longer feeling guilty and no longer feeling like a loser is possible because we can rejoice in the grace Christ has bestowed upon us!!!

Again, I’m not saying that Homosexuality isn’t a sin. What I’m saying is that it’s dang hard for them not to be what they are. They want love just as badly as the rest of us do. They need Christ just as badly as I do.

I will always struggle with my sin just as they are. Their sin happens to be a little more taboo than my pride or my jealousy or my self loathing. Doesn’t mean they can’t come to church. Doesn’t mean we can’t love them with open arms. Doesn’t mean we can’t accept them as Children of Christ!

We all go through different walks of life. I might have ended up a drug addict on the streets if my life had been different. Perhaps if it took a few other turns I may have been a prostitute. Perhaps if I hadn’t had that little something in my life I might have thought i was gay too. You can’t judge people!! You have not walked in their shoes, you have NO FREAKING CLUE!!! How can God say yes to the people who are more moral because they had a bright a shiny childhood? Who weren’t beaten as children so all of their neurological bits and pieces are healthy and right where they should be?

I believe Grace is more than just a gold star for good behavior. Grace isn’t conditional!! Christ died for people’s sins yet we’re all out there trying to atone for them still.

I’m not taking the grace bestowed to me from the cross for granted. I’m embracing it. I’m saying YES to grace. YES to doing what is right because God wants me to lead a fulfilling life. YES to not feeling guilty all of the time. I think that continuing to earn God’s grace is taking it in vain. He bled and died so that we can stop trying to earn our grace because it’s not possible!!!

Yes, turn from your wicked ways because it’s good, because it’s healthy, because God wants that for us!! NOT because you’re going to get extra brownie points!